How do we handle the sexual harassment thing?

Home Forums Off Topic How do we handle the sexual harassment thing?

This topic contains 8 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Abbey Raw 4 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #3524

    Creigh Gordon
    Moderator

    If one thing is clear about the sexual harassment scandal, it’s that we’ve only seen the tip of the iceberg so far. Here’s some thoughts from Dahlia Lithwick I thought were really good. http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/12/the_republicans_have_built_an_uneven_playing_field_of_morality.html

  • #3525

    Creigh Gordon
    Moderator
  • #3527

    mary guercio
    Moderator

    Super insight but I don’t see how the Dems can do anything other than not to give in to the GOP when it needs their votes. That is going to put them in an uncomfortable place with people and causes dear to the party, but Republicans have come to count on Democrat’s basic decency to predict and manage outcomes. It’s very unsettling and sad to see a party use its obvious skill in such nefarious ways…

  • #3528

    mary guercio
    Moderator

    I absolutely believe due process must be followed although I will accept voluntary admission from those who are accused. Garrison Keillor may be the best example of this. Women hurt their movement when they rush to judgement even as I applaud and admire their courage in speaking out. As with most important things in life, it’s complicated.

  • #3529

    Aaron Dow
    Participant

    Well for one thing Al Franken should have waited until after the Alabama special election to make his announcement, and he should have decided to retire at the end of his term, not next year. Rapists, molestors, and pedophiles should be forced out — provocateurs, hucksters, and the people who act inappropriately should only be termed out.

    Doug Jones is not going to win. The White Women of Alabama think the pedophilia is a lie (or embrace it as part of their own evangelicalism), the Jones campaign is struggling to turn out black voters, there’s no measurable swing vote, and polling errors in Alabama weigh rightward, esp. in a case where people are likely to make an identity-politics decision to vote for a Republican even if they don’t want to say so directly to avoid being shouted at. Al Franken and the Democrats in the Senate should know that.

    But part of the issue is that, despite Al Franken trying to be a good liberal, he’s always been a fucking idiot. The Decade of Al Franken should have ended two decades ago. Let’s be clear that Al Franken was honking boobs because he thought it was funny. He’s another example of why the changes in the political parties aren’t only about ideology, but about people. The government is run by the lazy wealthy who peaked in or around the early 90s. The groping is only a very accessible gut-level description of how fully detached these people’s worldview, values, and even outright sense of humor are from modern America.

    Under a status quo regime, I’d find these PR purges of sexual impropriety welcome and overdue. And in a choice between having them or not, I’m for them — it looks like the momentum is continuing to rush forward on them anyway, so might as well acknowledge it and work more on steering the course toward an end that equalizes self-representation and equality among genders. But the problem is that we’re not under a status quo regime, we’re under a chaos regime. If the chambers of Congress get purged other people are going to step into that vacuum. The Democrats, with an average age of leadership north of 70, do not have anybody to fill in that vacuum.

    So that’s that. The Democrats have to term and transition out their problematic associates. People like Roy Moore or Harvey Weinstein, on the other hand, deserve quick and thorough purging. Instead, Democrats are going to suffer the purge, and people like Roy Moore are going to have to be suffered until slow cultural and demographic change takes its toll.

  • #3534

    Creigh Gordon
    Moderator

    Here’s something I haven’t seen anyone talking about — the role of (I’m going to call them) enablers. Certainly in the case of Roy Moore and Harvey Weinstein–and undoubtedly many others–their behavior was an open secret, and many people who could have spoken up didn’t. I think a huge key to stopping the kind of behavior that we’re rightfully condemning now is refusing to accept it just because the perpetrator is a movie mogul or Congressman or filthy rich. It may be necessary to start stigmatizing syncophantic behavior that lets the rich and powerful get away with stuff that wouldn’t be allowed to the rest of us peons. These enablers are accessories to sexual harassment and are as worthy of disgust also, if not legal consequences. Could they be taken into court on civil charges, maybe?

  • #3537

    Creigh Gordon
    Moderator

    Another perspective: “[T]he difference between [him] being my husband and my harasser cannot just be that it worked out. The difference between actions that can get you married and actions that can get you fired can’t simply be whether or not the person you are interested in is interested back.”

    http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2017/12/where_is_the_line_between_office_flirtation_and_sexual_harassment.html

  • #3538

    Creigh Gordon
    Moderator

    Many years ago I read this essay by novelist Mary Gaitskill. I’ve never forgotten it and it’s still very much worth reading. With apologies for going on about this, folks…

    http://genedseminars.umb.edu/engl273-2/spg09/documents/HarpersMagazine-1994-03-0001592.pdf

  • #4494

    Abbey Raw
    Participant

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